We have not heard from your principal, General Buhari, of late, what is happening to him now?
Well, after all the stress of the election and the tortuous process of electioneering, General Buhari has decided to take some leave and attend to his medicals and have some rest while the party continues to battle and prove to the whole world that what happened on April 16 was no election in Nigeria but an aberration.
The post-election violence in some parts of the north has made some to tag your party, the CPC, with violence. Will this not rub off on its quest to bounce back to national reckoning in future?
It is a negative and line propaganda being orchestrated. It is so interesting that the media in particular have not been helpful in this matter in the sense of reporting one side of the story. There is no media organisation in Nigeria that has gone to do extensive investigative report of what happened in the crisis to give a balance account. It was unfortunate that 10 corps members were killed. The media has concentrated on that aspect of the story without reporting that there are thousands of Nigerians who were killed in the north during the crisis and who were CPC members, PDP members, Christians, Muslims and all sorts.
There is a place called Jami’a in southern Kaduna. It was said that close to 5,000 people were killed in that community. The human right watch said over 800 people were killed. The Nigerian government was talking about only 10 corps members. And talking about violence, in this country, we are given to line propaganda and we live in denial and because we live in denial we are not able to face the truth or embrace it, and that’s why we cannot solve our problems.
The cause of political violence is as old as electioneering in Nigeria. In 1964/1965 in the western region, there was what we called ‘operation we ti e’ when people revolted against electoral perfidy and made mince-meat of the whole exercise. And remember that late Hubert Ogunde made a record on that incident, where he was talking about the exploit of the people in making bonfire against soldiers. It is still a classical record till today. In 1983, after Omoboriowo did what he did in Ondo state, the people took to the street. 1993, we saw what happened after the annulment of June 12. 2003 and 2007 elections many people were killed. According to the information over 200 Nigerians were killed in the 2007 election. Nobody talked about this.
Now, coming to 2011, what happened in the north was what I called the revenge of the poor. The crisis that happened in the north was a revolt by the Hausa poor against the Hausa elite. Against the three institutions that have been used to suppress them over the years. And what are the institutions? The traditional institution, the religious institution and the political class. In the last 12 years of PDP, the north has suffered poverty that today, the three zones in the north, northeast, northwest and north central occupy number one, number two and number three in the poverty index in Nigeria. Before, there used to be a virile textile industry in the north that employed about 380,000 people but today most of them have closed down, employing less than 20,000 people. In fact the textile industry workers in Kaduna were protesting few days ago that their salaries from 2003 to 2007 have not been paid and in the process over 2,700 of them have died. In those areas, the people have seen how their elite have continued to prosper at their expense. I will give you an example.
During the election on the day we went to campaign in Adamawa, we got to a place and got information that Jonathan was campaigning in Adamawa and was coming out of Yola and if we went ahead we were going to run into his convoy. General Buhari said, with this very large crowd we would not be able to control anybody and something may happen and to avoid any incident let us avoid meeting him (Jonathan). Then, we diverted to take Ganyan, the town leading to Atiku’s town. As we were moving we got to a town called Jeda and I saw a house that was as mighty as Sheraton Hotel, Ikeja and every other house in that village is a mud house with thatched roof. And I asked who owned that house, they told me it belongs to Bamanga Tukur and that graphically tells you the gap between the northern political elite and the ordinary people. It then got to a point when, in frustration, the northern masses said that they wanted change. That’s why everybody sang Buhari‘s campaign ‘change doole, change doole’ (Change is compulsory). And they saw Buhari who lives a Spartan life, a principled life, who had been everything in this country, who had been governor of north-eastern states, who had been petroleum minister, NNPC chairman, PTF chairman, Head of state and yet does not have a filling station in his name. He does not have a house in Abuja. He has two houses, one in Kaduna and one in Daura. And in fact, people testified to it. John Campbell, former US ambassador to Nigeria, said in his book, Nigeria Riding on the brink, that the only politician of integrity, who is absolutely incorruptible in Nigeria is general Buhari but as for the elite of Nigeria who are benefitting from this rot Buhari is a high risk.
So, when they announced that Buhari did not win, the masses became incensed that their hope is dashed. I will give you two stories to show you the hope that the northern masses invested in the election. In Kaduna, there was a woman who went into labour while on queue to vote. She went home and gave birth, came back to the queue, voted and went back home to name that child Buhari.
In Daura, after Jega had taken his red sheets from his professors and announced Jonathan as the winner, one woman in Daura, after hearing the news on air, said ‘Buhari lost… Buhari lost…Buhari lost’ she fainted and died. That tells you the expectation of the masses, who felt that there should be one of the elite, who is different from the rest, to come to power and bring about changes in the country so that their lives would be better. So, when the violence started on that Monday, General Buhari was in Daura. He left Daura to come to Abuja. He got to Kaduna because of the situation he had to go to airport to take a flight. He sent his cars to go to his house in Kaduna. As they were going the three cars were vandalised by the mob. They did not even know that they were Buhari’s cars, they had vandalised them before they knew they were Buhari’s cars. That is to tell you that it was an angry reaction by a mob. Because he had no access to the media in Daura, immediately he got to Abuja, I arranged for him to speak on the BBC Hausa service, on Aljazeera, Radio Nagarta, Radio Freedom and all other local stations that covered the north effectively. Because if I just issue a statement carried by The Moment, Punch and the rest, the masses of the north don’t know what is written there. There are many states that you get to, apart from the capital, you cannot get newspapers. All the newspapers in Nigeria today do not sell one million copies. If we just wanted to play to the gallery, we could have issued a statement through the newspapers and the elite in Lagos and other people would say ‘yes’ Buhari has addressed the matter, they will be satisfied. But those who are fighting will not hear it and the fighting would continue. But the moment he spoke to them in Hausa language that ‘look, stop this’ in fact some of them burnt their voters card, that they are not going to vote again if the man they are fighting for is calling for calm. You can go to the BBC Hausa service and see their transcript if Buhari did not speak. Now, look at Nigerians.
They started blaming that Buhari did not speak. Jonathan, the president and commander in chief of Nigeria, who is in charge the army, the police and every security apparatus of the state, who has constitutional duty to put the crisis under control but lack the moral authority, because he has stolen the votes of the people, did not make a statement until six days after the incident. I can’t remember where he made any statement until six days after the incident and when he spoke, what did he say? He said ‘oh, this reminds me of Biafra,’ so what are we saying?
The question we must ask ourselves is that, why do we always conduct elections that attract violence in Nigeria? Ghana had election there. They had a presidential election, two run-offs. The ruling party lost to the opposition party, was anybody killed. It’s because they conducted free and fair election but in Nigeria we are always afraid of facing the truth. We deny the reality of the cause of the disease and we now begin to attack the symptoms and once we continue to do that we are going to repeat that cycle all over again. It is those who manipulate the will of the people, it is those who were using corps members to rig election, who exposed those young people, unfortunately to the anger of the mob that should be blamed and vilified. Before the election, there were bombings in Niger which corps members were killed, what has the president done till date? On October 1 in Abuja during the independent anniversary, bombs exploded, MEND said ‘we did it.’ The only reaction of the president was that ‘no, it’s not MEND it is Jomo Gbomo.’ He said he compensated corps member N5m per head, a family lost four children on October 1 when MEND claimed that they bombed Abuja, did he compensate them?
The day he went to campaign in Nasarawa, people were killed there. When he went to campaign in Port Harcourt scores of people died during a stampede, what did he do, did he compensate anybody? Nigerians should think!
The President is trying to constitute a Government of National Unity (GNU) but your party has said it would not participate. It also did not attend the President’s parley sometimes ago with opposition parties. Now, what are the measures the CPC is putting in places to make it provide a strong opposition to the ruling PDP?
First of all you will agree with me that it is only the CPC today that is challenging the dubious victory of Jonathan at the poll, to show that it is only the CPC that is opposing the rot in Nigeria. Even, don’t take the words of the CPC, take the words of Prof. Itsay Sagay (SAN) who said ‘I am from the south-south but when it comes to election, we are barbarians.’ South-south, southeast, there was no election, figures were just written. We have evidence to show that in a place in Rivers state, where 6,000 plus voters were registered, PDP got 76,000 votes.
In Imo state, Jonathan got 1.3 million votes, a week after in the governorship election, which is a local election that was keenly contested, went into supplementary election, Okorocha got 300,000 votes. But every other party said ‘it’s okay, we can move on.’ And that is because most of the leaders of other parties, I am not talking of their followers, I am talking of the leadership, are also satellites of the PDP. Mimiko has come out to say that Labour party did not present any candidate because they had a pact with Jonathan. It will be a reference point in history how Jonathan defeated Ribadu in the southwest, the stronghold of the ACN, and the ACN, now winning all the states the following week. That tells you there were some deals.
You’ve not talked about how the CPC would bounce back as a strong opposition party…
The CPC is going to be a vibrant opposition to the PDP and it is the only party that has shown in spite of their falsified figures, the party still had 12 million votes. The next party after CPC had only two million votes in the general elections. That tells you that the CPC is the party that is going to give the vibrant opposition. The party is at the tribunal today challenging the result and asking that the election be cancelled in 24 states and asking for a run-off between Jonathan and Buhari.
So, when the proceedings of the tribunal are over, the party will unfold its plans of giving Nigerians a vibrant opposition. In spite of all the negative media campaigns being sponsored mostly by Aso Rock, the CPC is still the party that is founded on principle of sustained opposition to the rot in Nigeria.
Away from Politics, the former president Olusegun Obasanjo, few days ago in Geneva, Switzerland, said that his successors, Yar’Adua and Jonathan, lacked the will to fight corruption, what do you make of this statement vis a vis what Jonathan is doing at the moment?
I think Obasanjo is very right that his successors, Yar’Adua and Jonathan, lacked the capacity and political will to fight corruption but what they are doing is a continuation of his legacies. Because Obasanjo himself is corruption personified. How did Obasanjo, who had just N20,000 in his account in 1998, suddenly become one of the richest men in Africa today? How did he build all the mansions in Abeokuta? The Presidential Library, the Hilltop mansion in Abeokuta after eight years of being President on Nigeria. The two had lacked the will to fight corruption because they are true children of their father. Obasanjo spread corruption in Nigeria, corruption of values, corruption of selves, corruption of everything in Nigeria in his eight years rule.
Looking at the trial of ex-speaker Bankole and his deputy, Nafada, a school of thought says the case should not be treated in isolation, that the leadership of the Senate and the clerk of the National Assembly, should also be investigated because they were privy to some of the deals that Bankole is being tried for now, what is your take on this?
The first point I want to make is that, as a person I believe that anybody who has dipped his hands in the public coffers illegally, should face the music, no matter who you are. You must face the music and account for your action. But, do I hale what is going on? No, I don’t, because I understand and I know that corruption cannot fight corruption.
PDP is corruption. Jonathan is a product of corruption. Jonathan became president through corruption. So, how can you now say that such a person will fight corruption?Without holding brief for Bankole, I don’t have all the details of the weighty allegations against him. But I want to believe that his travail is more of stepping out of line by not allowing the House of Reps to have the rules of open-secret ballot for election of the leadership of the House. That was all.
And President Jonathan once said in my presence and few others that if I don’t want all the governors in Nigeria today to sleep on their bed, they will not sleep on their beds, I know what to do. That tells you that this may well be a way of settling scores among themselves. Any member, who go out of line have to be disciplined, that’s the law of the mafias. If you step out of line, they deal with you. They may eliminate you or put you under serious punishment.
The present occupier of Aso Rock today has been dignified. The reason why he is the president of Nigeria today is that all the crooks of Nigeria believe that he is the man they can use to sustain what is on ground.
You’ve not comment on the leadership of the Senate regarding corruption…
Look, are they not PDP? What they have accused Bankole of, as weighty as they are, they are a tip of the iceberg if you know what is happening over there. If you are saying they should investigate David Mark too, who will investigate him? If Dimeji did not fall out of line would they have treated him this way? Until we get the PDP out of power in Nigeria, there is no way we can fight corruption and I think that is what their BOT chairman said in Geneva, that the people he put in power are not fighting corruption. That tells you that he knows his people. There is no way anybody in PDP can fight corruption because the party is an epitome of corruption.
What is your view on the security situation in the country?
I think it is rather sad and unfortunate that Nigeria today has become an insecure country where bombs are flying like Christmas bangers almost on a daily basis. We have had it virtually everywhere. But the worst of it was the one that happened at the Police Headquarters in Abuja. That was the symbol of law and order. When the Police at the highest level are no longer safe, then, who is safe? The IG boasted to face the Boko haram sect, but without anything on ground. I expected the IG to get his population plan ready, move against them and when he arrests them, dislodge the movement and you now begin to boast. There was nothing but an empty boast.
Somebody was sending me a joke saying that what is the difference between ‘shakara’ and action? Then, ‘shakara’ is when Ringim boasts to Boko Haram that their days are numbered but action is when Boko Haram strikes and tell the IG that his own days are numbered.So, what’s Jonathan doing against the bombers? Secondly, we have been told that by the police that the suicide bomber drove into the IG’s convoy, he got to where IG was going to pack, they now directed him to go and pack somewhere and ask somebody to check who is inside the car. When the Presidential tribunal started sitting in Abuja, I drove to the court, every car was frisked at the gate before you enter the premises. How can anybody tell me that the IG goes to the office every day that they don’t know where his convoy ends and you allowed a strange car to move with you until he gets to the car back before you now say ‘come’. You asked someone to frisk inside the car. When you want to frisk a car you start from the boot.
So they are not telling us the truth.
I think the president has shown his incompetence over the matter. He has not shown the capacity to govern this country. The spokesman of the SSS was on Channels television few days ago and was saying that there are some people who believe it is their birth right to rule the country, trying to politicise the issue of bombing. That’s the SSS! In a country under a president, such person would be fired! That IG should be removed. People now watch their shoulders. If the exhaust of a car gives loud sound now, Nigerians will run because they don’t know where the next bomb is coming from. There is a sense of insecurity all over the country.
How can we address the problem?
First of all, there are short-term and there are long term measures. The short term measures, there should be coordinated approach by the security forces driven by the Presidency, to show that there is some seriousness in fighting terrorism in the country. Not an IG going about, boasting. The long term aspect of it is that we have to look at the root causes of these problems and tackle them.
When the leader of Boko Haram, Yusuf Muhammed, was executed extra judicially in this country, I was one of those who spoke openly that it was an unlawful thing to do. Some people were saying, out of emotion because Nigerians were run by emotions they can’t look beyond now, no, no, he has killed people he should be killed too. In a civilised country that wants to get to the root of it, they should have arrested him alive, interrogate him, get information from him and they will be able to extract a lot of information from him to know about their modus operandi. But they are interested in covering the evidence, they killed him extra judicially. And we told them then that by doing that they are going to get a movement that is more dangerous because what they had done was just to scrape the surface, the whole of the movement is still intact. They now come more daring. Whereas, if they had extracted information from Yusuf before killing him, they would have used such information to get into their structure, their operations and kill the sect without sweating. Today, Boko Haram has turn out to be something else! I don’t know whether anybody knows those who are leading the movement. Under Yusuf they knew those who were leading. Look at Niger Delta, what is causing problems there are also in the north. It is poverty that has raised this kind of movement because they are young people. Most of them don’t go to school. The only thing they read is the Qur’an and they look at it and discovered that what their political leaders are doing are not in the Qur’an and conclude that it’s because they have western education, that’s why they are doing all they are doing. That’s why they said that western education is taboo. How do we change this orientation? How do we take them through proper education? How do we wean them from that kind of ideology? Nobody is addressing that. MEND started this way. Instead of tackling the problem, they started bribing the militant leaders. Today, it is said that the biggest houses in Nigeria today are owned by ex-militants. Have we solved the problems in the Niger Delta? Few days ago, MEND was making threats.
In Lagos today, you see that the problem of area boys is reducing. Why? It is because a lot of them have been absorbed into LASTMA, KAI, LAWMA and others. They are beginning to have money, own cell phones, and rent houses!
The Boko Haram came up with some demands, one of which was the prosecution of those responsible for the killing of its leader, Yusuf Muhammed, do you think the government would be able to meet this demand in the light of what Aljazeera reported of the killings by the Nigerian Police during the crisis?
In Nigeria, we are always attending to a side of an issue.
What Boko Haram is doing is wrong but those who killed Yusuf in handcuff have also committed a crime. Once you arrest a man, you have no right to kill him. It is only the court that can find him guilty and say base on this and this, so so person is guilty of homicide, kill him. So killing the man without fair trial is a crime. Until we observe the scale of balance in Nigeria, we cannot have justice and once we don’t have justice we not have peace. So, we need to be rounded in our sense of Justice.
